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10 Responses to “Is it ever appropriate to intentionally hit a batter?”
As a coach for 14 years at a variety of different levels of baseball and softball I have yet to find the time when it is “appropriate” for a pitcher to hit a batter.
Taking back the inside of the plate from a batter and mistakenly hitting them is one thing.
Keeping batters on their toes with a few seemingly uncontrolled pitches is another.
I feel intentionally walking a player or pitching around a player creates frustration for the hitter and opposing coach opposed to hitting the batter and causing the other TEAM, COACH AND BATTER to seek retribution.
In my opinion, to intentionally hit a batter, would reflect either a lack of skills to pitch around the batter or an example of poor sportsmanship. I see it happen in the Pro’s and it’s more often than not retribution. No matter, in this coaches opinion. it’s bush league play.
I look forward to your scenario’s and maybe I might understand better the situation that would call for this.
great post. i feel, if you’ve played long enough, you understand that there comes a time when words no longer seem to communicate the message. having to brush a guy back off the dish, or put one in his side, speaks VOLUMES. with the velocity that many young kids are reaching, i never subscribe to head hunting, but i do believe in putting one in his ribs when the time calls for it. age is a huge part of the needed discretion…your comment of 14 and older is a great thought, of which i’ll consider. personally, i think as early as 13 (as long as the league is a highly competitive and advanced). we must remember safety first with these kids at such young ages, but i believe as early as 13 works. sometimes, the only language another team will respect is to hit someone. just my thoughts. thanks for all you do.
Tom,
The only time this has ever come up for the teams (my son & I) we have been on, was this past spring season. This was on a 14U team. Playing in a travel league, there was one situation where a player (stronger player) from the other team intentional spiked our catcher coming home, and later in the game, intentional slid out of the base path, spikes up to take out our SS. The head coach and I (asst coach) both agreed that this dirty player (would ws already known as a dirty player) should be hit during his next at-bat. Our theory was that this type of play would not be tolerated (and two can play this game) and to help protect our guys (hopefully this player will connect the dots and stop trying to injure other players). As it turns out, our pitcher did not want to intentionally hit the player (because he knew the guy from past teams they played on). When the pitcher came back into the dugout, we explained to him why we would even want him to do this type of act (which was never ordered before) and why we were looking to protect our own. I still think this particular pitcher would not throw at this same player (probably because of his upbringing). But I do know that there were several other players on our team who definitely would. In the end, other than the situations we saw here, we would never order that. And I think never at any level below this age.
Tom – Ed,
I by no stretch of the imagination feel my opinion is always right. I may agrue it a little but can accept the fact I am sometimes of a different opinion.
Ed your example is exactly what I am talking about. Now you have players that feel if they have been wronged they can retaliate. Now will the players feel the can slide high because it happened to them?
We all live that same experience at some point and my feeling is to show the players how you can retaliate by playing with the opposing team’s head opposed to throwing at them. Walk a key player, get pumped up and a little loud when something happens, when the other coach get’s all up in arms have the team stand up and watch him until noticed…
I have always taught to “show your game with your actions, not reactions”.
Intentionally hitting a batter should, of course, never be used as a form of violent retaliation for something that happened earlier. This sort of thing is just not in the spirit of the game.
On the other hand, if intentionally hitting a batter is part of a strategy that will help a team win the game, it may be appropriate. This could be a more efficient way of intentionally walking a batter, especially effective if there is a limited pitch count. In addition, it could invoke a bit of fear in the batter and maybe distract him from his game.
But by no means should anybody be teaching young amateur players to be doing this. Even if it is strategy, it may be misunderstood that intentionally hitting a batter any time is fine. It’s not.
So mature professional ballplayers in the minor leagues or major leagues can be told to intentionally hit a batter.
my son lost his confidence in the batters box for half the season last year because of being hit two games in a row…he was constantly bailing out even on outside pitches…i will say that it ruined his season and the fun he was supposed to be having…i will also say that kids can never be sure as to where the pitch is going…a pitch meant for the lower body still may end up near the head with kids…
I find this dialogue fascinating. I pitched in college 25 years ago and things have changed, apparently, such that every batsman feels entitled to charge the mound when they feel slighted; back then, we didn’t, and we accepted that brush-backs and retribution was part of the game for breaking the unwritten rules.
As a pitcher, the plate was mine — crowd it and I’d bring it in on you. You get plunked, maybe you shouldn’t hover over my plate. If you spike my guys, I’d come in on you. If you time my pitches (most of you may not even remember what that is), I’d come in.
Point being, there used to be etiquette and rules of behavior that were accepted would bring retribution if broken. Sometimes the game called for breaking them, but you accepted that *actions have consequences*. That personal responsibility seems to have been forgotten.
You would never, never, never plunk someone to intentionally put them on — people get hurt that way. You simply gave him nothing to hit and took your lumps. Chin music was played to intimidate, not wound. And if I plunked someone by accident, I’d eventually apologize and would expect that I (or one of mine) might take one if it was perceived as intentional. There was nothing weak about admitting error or accepting the possibility that they may come in on me as a consequence. We did not trade licks.
These days, everyone charges the mound regardless of what the perceived slight is; a couple of generations ago, we understood the game well enough to know when beanings were likely or reasonable and accepted it as a facet of the game. If occasionally a team was overzealous with brush-backs or throwing behind hitters, their actions would result in action of our own. But it was understood, and we’d usually be apologizing in the midst of the melee at the mound.
In over a dozen years of playing, I can’t recall more than a few occasions when a coach had to remind me of a breach of etiquette. I knew when I needed to screw one in on someone, and they knew it was coming. As a result, all of this happened far less often and melees were few and far between. As barbaric as it surely sounds to the uninitiated, it was a more gentlemanly game than my kid plays today, because the rules were clear, known, and understood.
Today I might diplomatically warn an opposing coach that I feel slighted by actions on the field, and he should have the sense to understand what that means and act accordingly.
Addendum: I should add that age of the player matters greatly. I would not say all of my comments necessarily apply to a little or pony league player, and I support what Rob said about his son. There’s no reason to suck the fun and life out of a game for a kid.
That said, I’d say a high schooler or competitive travel ball player should know the difference.
I believe when the time is right–yes it is acceptable, how do you judge if the time is right–I think it depends on personal interpretation. My personal expereince–My first varsity game as a freshman in HS I came in in the 5th inning and well we were getting the score run up on us, so as I came out of the pen I was greeted by my coach telling me to put one on the next kids back. I was what 14 or 15 years old, first ever varsity game and my first pitch was at a kids back. It caught me by surprise, but I followed my coaches orders and put one in his ribs on the first pitch. It was a message sender and it worked, they stopped running up the score, it also helped that I struck out the next 2 kids, they backed off so far from the plate that I owned the outside the rest of the game. So did it work–yes, was it right? I am not sure.
great discussion. the gentleman attesting to 25 years ago, carries alot of profound truth about how the game has changed. that being said, i think it is up to coaches like tommy and others, who have actually PLAYED the game at higher levels, to teach the younger boys proper baseball etiquette. every sport has this sort of behavioral rules that must be implemented by men and women, who know what they are talking about from an experience level. that being said, we should be training these young men and women, for baseball/softball at a higher level, as well as life at a higher level. im not proposing “blind retaliation.” however, i do firmly believe in protecting your own team and your own guys, and sometimes a good “dose” is the onlly thing that communicates this message.
August 28th, 2009 at 8:20 pm
Tommy,
As a coach for 14 years at a variety of different levels of baseball and softball I have yet to find the time when it is “appropriate” for a pitcher to hit a batter.
Taking back the inside of the plate from a batter and mistakenly hitting them is one thing.
Keeping batters on their toes with a few seemingly uncontrolled pitches is another.
I feel intentionally walking a player or pitching around a player creates frustration for the hitter and opposing coach opposed to hitting the batter and causing the other TEAM, COACH AND BATTER to seek retribution.
In my opinion, to intentionally hit a batter, would reflect either a lack of skills to pitch around the batter or an example of poor sportsmanship. I see it happen in the Pro’s and it’s more often than not retribution. No matter, in this coaches opinion. it’s bush league play.
I look forward to your scenario’s and maybe I might understand better the situation that would call for this.
Keep up the good work.
August 28th, 2009 at 10:45 pm
great post. i feel, if you’ve played long enough, you understand that there comes a time when words no longer seem to communicate the message. having to brush a guy back off the dish, or put one in his side, speaks VOLUMES. with the velocity that many young kids are reaching, i never subscribe to head hunting, but i do believe in putting one in his ribs when the time calls for it. age is a huge part of the needed discretion…your comment of 14 and older is a great thought, of which i’ll consider. personally, i think as early as 13 (as long as the league is a highly competitive and advanced). we must remember safety first with these kids at such young ages, but i believe as early as 13 works. sometimes, the only language another team will respect is to hit someone. just my thoughts. thanks for all you do.
August 29th, 2009 at 1:45 am
Tom,
The only time this has ever come up for the teams (my son & I) we have been on, was this past spring season. This was on a 14U team. Playing in a travel league, there was one situation where a player (stronger player) from the other team intentional spiked our catcher coming home, and later in the game, intentional slid out of the base path, spikes up to take out our SS. The head coach and I (asst coach) both agreed that this dirty player (would ws already known as a dirty player) should be hit during his next at-bat. Our theory was that this type of play would not be tolerated (and two can play this game) and to help protect our guys (hopefully this player will connect the dots and stop trying to injure other players). As it turns out, our pitcher did not want to intentionally hit the player (because he knew the guy from past teams they played on). When the pitcher came back into the dugout, we explained to him why we would even want him to do this type of act (which was never ordered before) and why we were looking to protect our own. I still think this particular pitcher would not throw at this same player (probably because of his upbringing). But I do know that there were several other players on our team who definitely would. In the end, other than the situations we saw here, we would never order that. And I think never at any level below this age.
August 30th, 2009 at 3:01 pm
Tom – Ed,
I by no stretch of the imagination feel my opinion is always right. I may agrue it a little but can accept the fact I am sometimes of a different opinion.
Ed your example is exactly what I am talking about. Now you have players that feel if they have been wronged they can retaliate. Now will the players feel the can slide high because it happened to them?
We all live that same experience at some point and my feeling is to show the players how you can retaliate by playing with the opposing team’s head opposed to throwing at them. Walk a key player, get pumped up and a little loud when something happens, when the other coach get’s all up in arms have the team stand up and watch him until noticed…
I have always taught to “show your game with your actions, not reactions”.
Thanks and I enjoy the discussion.
August 31st, 2009 at 5:30 pm
Intentionally hitting a batter should, of course, never be used as a form of violent retaliation for something that happened earlier. This sort of thing is just not in the spirit of the game.
On the other hand, if intentionally hitting a batter is part of a strategy that will help a team win the game, it may be appropriate. This could be a more efficient way of intentionally walking a batter, especially effective if there is a limited pitch count. In addition, it could invoke a bit of fear in the batter and maybe distract him from his game.
But by no means should anybody be teaching young amateur players to be doing this. Even if it is strategy, it may be misunderstood that intentionally hitting a batter any time is fine. It’s not.
So mature professional ballplayers in the minor leagues or major leagues can be told to intentionally hit a batter.
September 1st, 2009 at 8:53 am
never appropriate…
my son lost his confidence in the batters box for half the season last year because of being hit two games in a row…he was constantly bailing out even on outside pitches…i will say that it ruined his season and the fun he was supposed to be having…i will also say that kids can never be sure as to where the pitch is going…a pitch meant for the lower body still may end up near the head with kids…
September 1st, 2009 at 10:14 am
I find this dialogue fascinating. I pitched in college 25 years ago and things have changed, apparently, such that every batsman feels entitled to charge the mound when they feel slighted; back then, we didn’t, and we accepted that brush-backs and retribution was part of the game for breaking the unwritten rules.
As a pitcher, the plate was mine — crowd it and I’d bring it in on you. You get plunked, maybe you shouldn’t hover over my plate. If you spike my guys, I’d come in on you. If you time my pitches (most of you may not even remember what that is), I’d come in.
Point being, there used to be etiquette and rules of behavior that were accepted would bring retribution if broken. Sometimes the game called for breaking them, but you accepted that *actions have consequences*. That personal responsibility seems to have been forgotten.
You would never, never, never plunk someone to intentionally put them on — people get hurt that way. You simply gave him nothing to hit and took your lumps. Chin music was played to intimidate, not wound. And if I plunked someone by accident, I’d eventually apologize and would expect that I (or one of mine) might take one if it was perceived as intentional. There was nothing weak about admitting error or accepting the possibility that they may come in on me as a consequence. We did not trade licks.
These days, everyone charges the mound regardless of what the perceived slight is; a couple of generations ago, we understood the game well enough to know when beanings were likely or reasonable and accepted it as a facet of the game. If occasionally a team was overzealous with brush-backs or throwing behind hitters, their actions would result in action of our own. But it was understood, and we’d usually be apologizing in the midst of the melee at the mound.
In over a dozen years of playing, I can’t recall more than a few occasions when a coach had to remind me of a breach of etiquette. I knew when I needed to screw one in on someone, and they knew it was coming. As a result, all of this happened far less often and melees were few and far between. As barbaric as it surely sounds to the uninitiated, it was a more gentlemanly game than my kid plays today, because the rules were clear, known, and understood.
Today I might diplomatically warn an opposing coach that I feel slighted by actions on the field, and he should have the sense to understand what that means and act accordingly.
September 1st, 2009 at 5:09 pm
Addendum: I should add that age of the player matters greatly. I would not say all of my comments necessarily apply to a little or pony league player, and I support what Rob said about his son. There’s no reason to suck the fun and life out of a game for a kid.
That said, I’d say a high schooler or competitive travel ball player should know the difference.
September 2nd, 2009 at 10:49 am
I believe when the time is right–yes it is acceptable, how do you judge if the time is right–I think it depends on personal interpretation. My personal expereince–My first varsity game as a freshman in HS I came in in the 5th inning and well we were getting the score run up on us, so as I came out of the pen I was greeted by my coach telling me to put one on the next kids back. I was what 14 or 15 years old, first ever varsity game and my first pitch was at a kids back. It caught me by surprise, but I followed my coaches orders and put one in his ribs on the first pitch. It was a message sender and it worked, they stopped running up the score, it also helped that I struck out the next 2 kids, they backed off so far from the plate that I owned the outside the rest of the game. So did it work–yes, was it right? I am not sure.
September 2nd, 2009 at 4:17 pm
great discussion. the gentleman attesting to 25 years ago, carries alot of profound truth about how the game has changed. that being said, i think it is up to coaches like tommy and others, who have actually PLAYED the game at higher levels, to teach the younger boys proper baseball etiquette. every sport has this sort of behavioral rules that must be implemented by men and women, who know what they are talking about from an experience level. that being said, we should be training these young men and women, for baseball/softball at a higher level, as well as life at a higher level. im not proposing “blind retaliation.” however, i do firmly believe in protecting your own team and your own guys, and sometimes a good “dose” is the onlly thing that communicates this message.